Tweet
ARMENIA'S STANCE ON TURKISH BORDERS IS TO AVOID A DEAD-END
February 26, 2015 10:29
Photo: unknown author
Yerevan /Mediamax/. Armenian Foreign Ministry disseminated the
transcript of the interview of Deputy Foreign Minister Shavarsh
Kocharyan to the anchor of Kentron TV Petros Ghazaryan.
Below we present an excerpt from the transcript on Armenia's
recognition of Turkey's borders:
[...Anchor: When we signed the Protocols which read that we recognized
the borders of modern Turkey...
Shavarsh Kocharyan: There is not such thing in the Protocols.
Anchor: And we accept the Declaration... We recognize Turkey...
Shavarsh Kocharyan: It is written -in accord with the documents of
international law.
Anchor: Yes, borders of modern Turkey.
Shavarsh Kocharyan: In accord with the documents of international law:
Under which agreement?
Anchor: Here we recall Treaty of Sevres, Turkey's claims and Woodrow
Wilson. Agree with me that they contradict each other.
Shavarsh Kocharyan: If the Protocol endorses- under the documents of
international law- which document of international law endorses that?
Anchor: Borders outlined by the UN Charter.
Shavarsh Kocharyan: The UN Charter has never concerned any border
including the borders in our region, Armenia-Turkey borders or
Armenia-Azerbaijan ones or others. You can also recall Kars Treaty.
But there is no mention of Treaty of Kars on the Protocols. And it's
not by mere chance. It was really Turkey's dream during the talks.
Anchor: So, doesn't Armenia currently recognize Turkey's borders?
Shavarsh Kocharyan: They dreamed that Treaty of Kars be mentioned in
the Protocols but that didn't happened, and this is what matters.
There are 2 different approaches - interpretation of Armenians and
interpretation of many political forces in Turkey. Regarding this
issue, people in our country say that by signing the Protocols,
we in fact recognize the current borders. Now I'll give you an
opposite approach adopted by the Turkish National Assembly when
current PM Ahmet Davutoglu who was then Foreign Minister of Turkey,
was presenting the Protocols in the parliament. Leader of one of the
Turkish parties Deniz Baykal stated directly that the Turkish side
didn't endorse the current border and the Protocols didn't refer to
Treaty of Kars. Thus the issue of borders remained open to question.
Their criticism was based on this. That's why it is the case when
we don't need any clarifications to move forward: each side has his
own approach.
What is the process aimed at? This is the problem. If the goal is to
clarify the issues after which it won't be possible to speak about
normalization, we could have adopted the path. However, originally
our goal and the approach of the Armenian side and President were
quite different: despite all the discords, disputes and tough past,
we are destined to live side by side, we need to try to normalize
the relations sincerely and step-by-step
Anchor: Anyways, you didn't answer my question, Mr. Kocharyan.
Shavarsh Kocharyan: I am answering.
Anchor: Does Armenia recognize Turkey's borders or not?
Shavarsh Kocharyan: I did answer very clearly. If one is willing to
rule out settlement, any issue can be stalled, and there won't be
any progress in this case. Now I reiterate and state that our goal
was to try to move forward in normalization without preconditions,
despite various comments, discords and tough past.
Anchor: Does Armenia recognize Turkey's borders or not?
Shavarsh Kocharyan: What to do think?
Anchor: I don't know. You are an official, and I'm a journalist. My
notions are not essential.
Shavarsh Kocharyan: Before recognition, we need to establish diplomatic
relations. Till there are no diplomatic relations, it's no use talking
about the border.
Anchor: That means- do we recognize?
Shavarsh Kocharyan: If there are no diplomatic relations, we can't
talk about it.
Anchor: Many countries don't have diplomatic ties but it is not a
mandatory condition.
Shavarsh Kocharyan: So, let's start again. There were two Protocols,
one concerning the diplomatic relations, and the second - normalization
of relations. The Protocol "On Establishment of Diplomatic Relations"
should have concerned the borders and it mentioned the following:
recognition of borders in accord with the documents of international
law.
Anchor: We started talking about the Declaration. I am reading the
Declaration dedicated to the Armenian Genocide Centennial. It mentions
the Treaty of Sevres, Woodrow Wilson and Turkey's claims. I want
to figure out the following: doesn't our state recognize Turkey's
territorial integrity and advances topics envisaged by the Treaty
of Sevres and Wilson's Arbitral Decision, or is it a moral issue
after all?
Shavarsh Kocharyan: Our state's stances are clearly presented in the
Protocols- no more, no less. Protocols are for us to move forward.
That's it.
Anchor: I'm not talking about moving forward. You mean do we not have
a stance on this issue?
Shavarsh Kocharyan: We have a very clear position.
Anchor: Do we recognize Turkey's territorial integrity?
Shavarsh Kocharyan: We can't talk about recognition till there are
no diplomatic ties. If we set diplomatic ties, under the Protocols,
we will have...
Anchor: So, we don't have a position, do we?
Shavarsh Kocharyan: We do have, and it's mentioned in the Protocols.
Anchor: If there is, do we recognize it or no?
Shavarsh Kocharyan: I'll repeat it. We do recognize what is
written in the Protocols, in accord with the current documents of
international law. That's it. Nothing more. Deniz Baykal is also
trying to get a commentary from anyone in just the same way. Let him
try to understand. I won't waive the goal we have set and we sincerely
strive to reach.
Anchor: Mr. Kocharyan, I think I am trying to understand a very
simple thing.
Shavarsh Kocharyan: I see. Any question can be voiced in a very simple
way and lead to the understanding that we will advance preconditions
to establish relations with Turkey. We don't support it.
That's why I let myself speak the language of preconditions. We have
never done it. During this process, Turkey always spoke the language
of preconditions, and we were always sincere that's why we had an
agreement - to move forward without preconditions. We were committed
to it. And we will be committed until the prospect is lost for good...]
http://www.mediamax.am/en/news/armeniaturkey/13322/#sthash.yhZJTDx5.dpuf
February 26, 2015 10:29
Photo: unknown author
Yerevan /Mediamax/. Armenian Foreign Ministry disseminated the
transcript of the interview of Deputy Foreign Minister Shavarsh
Kocharyan to the anchor of Kentron TV Petros Ghazaryan.
Below we present an excerpt from the transcript on Armenia's
recognition of Turkey's borders:
[...Anchor: When we signed the Protocols which read that we recognized
the borders of modern Turkey...
Shavarsh Kocharyan: There is not such thing in the Protocols.
Anchor: And we accept the Declaration... We recognize Turkey...
Shavarsh Kocharyan: It is written -in accord with the documents of
international law.
Anchor: Yes, borders of modern Turkey.
Shavarsh Kocharyan: In accord with the documents of international law:
Under which agreement?
Anchor: Here we recall Treaty of Sevres, Turkey's claims and Woodrow
Wilson. Agree with me that they contradict each other.
Shavarsh Kocharyan: If the Protocol endorses- under the documents of
international law- which document of international law endorses that?
Anchor: Borders outlined by the UN Charter.
Shavarsh Kocharyan: The UN Charter has never concerned any border
including the borders in our region, Armenia-Turkey borders or
Armenia-Azerbaijan ones or others. You can also recall Kars Treaty.
But there is no mention of Treaty of Kars on the Protocols. And it's
not by mere chance. It was really Turkey's dream during the talks.
Anchor: So, doesn't Armenia currently recognize Turkey's borders?
Shavarsh Kocharyan: They dreamed that Treaty of Kars be mentioned in
the Protocols but that didn't happened, and this is what matters.
There are 2 different approaches - interpretation of Armenians and
interpretation of many political forces in Turkey. Regarding this
issue, people in our country say that by signing the Protocols,
we in fact recognize the current borders. Now I'll give you an
opposite approach adopted by the Turkish National Assembly when
current PM Ahmet Davutoglu who was then Foreign Minister of Turkey,
was presenting the Protocols in the parliament. Leader of one of the
Turkish parties Deniz Baykal stated directly that the Turkish side
didn't endorse the current border and the Protocols didn't refer to
Treaty of Kars. Thus the issue of borders remained open to question.
Their criticism was based on this. That's why it is the case when
we don't need any clarifications to move forward: each side has his
own approach.
What is the process aimed at? This is the problem. If the goal is to
clarify the issues after which it won't be possible to speak about
normalization, we could have adopted the path. However, originally
our goal and the approach of the Armenian side and President were
quite different: despite all the discords, disputes and tough past,
we are destined to live side by side, we need to try to normalize
the relations sincerely and step-by-step
Anchor: Anyways, you didn't answer my question, Mr. Kocharyan.
Shavarsh Kocharyan: I am answering.
Anchor: Does Armenia recognize Turkey's borders or not?
Shavarsh Kocharyan: I did answer very clearly. If one is willing to
rule out settlement, any issue can be stalled, and there won't be
any progress in this case. Now I reiterate and state that our goal
was to try to move forward in normalization without preconditions,
despite various comments, discords and tough past.
Anchor: Does Armenia recognize Turkey's borders or not?
Shavarsh Kocharyan: What to do think?
Anchor: I don't know. You are an official, and I'm a journalist. My
notions are not essential.
Shavarsh Kocharyan: Before recognition, we need to establish diplomatic
relations. Till there are no diplomatic relations, it's no use talking
about the border.
Anchor: That means- do we recognize?
Shavarsh Kocharyan: If there are no diplomatic relations, we can't
talk about it.
Anchor: Many countries don't have diplomatic ties but it is not a
mandatory condition.
Shavarsh Kocharyan: So, let's start again. There were two Protocols,
one concerning the diplomatic relations, and the second - normalization
of relations. The Protocol "On Establishment of Diplomatic Relations"
should have concerned the borders and it mentioned the following:
recognition of borders in accord with the documents of international
law.
Anchor: We started talking about the Declaration. I am reading the
Declaration dedicated to the Armenian Genocide Centennial. It mentions
the Treaty of Sevres, Woodrow Wilson and Turkey's claims. I want
to figure out the following: doesn't our state recognize Turkey's
territorial integrity and advances topics envisaged by the Treaty
of Sevres and Wilson's Arbitral Decision, or is it a moral issue
after all?
Shavarsh Kocharyan: Our state's stances are clearly presented in the
Protocols- no more, no less. Protocols are for us to move forward.
That's it.
Anchor: I'm not talking about moving forward. You mean do we not have
a stance on this issue?
Shavarsh Kocharyan: We have a very clear position.
Anchor: Do we recognize Turkey's territorial integrity?
Shavarsh Kocharyan: We can't talk about recognition till there are
no diplomatic ties. If we set diplomatic ties, under the Protocols,
we will have...
Anchor: So, we don't have a position, do we?
Shavarsh Kocharyan: We do have, and it's mentioned in the Protocols.
Anchor: If there is, do we recognize it or no?
Shavarsh Kocharyan: I'll repeat it. We do recognize what is
written in the Protocols, in accord with the current documents of
international law. That's it. Nothing more. Deniz Baykal is also
trying to get a commentary from anyone in just the same way. Let him
try to understand. I won't waive the goal we have set and we sincerely
strive to reach.
Anchor: Mr. Kocharyan, I think I am trying to understand a very
simple thing.
Shavarsh Kocharyan: I see. Any question can be voiced in a very simple
way and lead to the understanding that we will advance preconditions
to establish relations with Turkey. We don't support it.
That's why I let myself speak the language of preconditions. We have
never done it. During this process, Turkey always spoke the language
of preconditions, and we were always sincere that's why we had an
agreement - to move forward without preconditions. We were committed
to it. And we will be committed until the prospect is lost for good...]
http://www.mediamax.am/en/news/armeniaturkey/13322/#sthash.yhZJTDx5.dpuf