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IRAQI KURDISH, TURKOMANI POLITICIANS DENY PLAN TO REFER KIRKUK TO ICJ
Al-Sharqiyah TV
Program: The Harvest
Aug 18 2008
United Arab Emirates
Interviewee: Sa'di al-Barazanji, a leading figure in the Kurdistan Alliance
Interviewee: Hasan Turani, a leading figure in the Turkoman Front,
Interviewee: Ahmad al-Ubaydi, member of the Arab Unity Bloc in Kirkuk,
Asked if the Kurds, Arabs, and Turkmen have agreed to refer the
Kirkuk issue to the ICJ, Al-Barazanji says that "no Kurdistan
Alliance official has heard about this proposal." This is the
first time I have heard about this issue, he says, adding that
"we are still trying to solve problems related to Kirkuk and the
other disputed areas under Article 140 of the constitution and the
relevant laws." To my knowledge, he says, "the committee in charge of
the application of Article 140 is still working on a plan to normalize
the situation in the city by organizing a census and a referendum." In
another development, he says, "the UN secretary general's special
representative has stated that the United Nations is ready to help
the Iraqi Government resolve the internal borders issue in accordance
with UN Security Council Resolution No 1770." A UN body, he says,
"has already begun investigations and field work and holds meetings
with the city's residents to prepare for a political accord," adding
that "two groups are working in parallel on this issue" and that
"we have not yet exhausted constitutional and legal means to find a
solution." As I have said, he says, "if we fail to find a solution in
accordance with the constitution and through political means, then we
may seek international arbitration," adding that "the Kirkuk problem
has created many problems and triggered wars since the establishment of
the State of Iraq." Mustafa Barzani, he says, "turned down then Vice
President Saddam Husayn's proposal that the city be divided into two
halves in accordance with the July 1970 agreement." He says that "under
the agreement, one half east of the Khasa River would have been part
of the then proposed Autonomous Region and the other half west of the
river would have been outside the Autonomous Region." Saddam, he says,
"proposed a second solution based on the results of the 1957 census
to define the Autonomous Region's administrative borders and annex
the largely Kurdish areas to the Autonomous Region." Regrettably,
he says, "the second solution, which was accepted by the Kurdish
leadership, has not been applied honestly by the Iraqi Government
which found out that if the results of the said census are accepted,
Kirkuk will become part of the Autonomous Region." In my view,
"if this problem remains unsolved, Iraqis will not enjoy stability,"
he says, urging those saying that "Article 140 is no longer valid to
reconsider their position." Expressing his respect for all Iraqis,
even those objecting to his views, he says that "we will not break
away from Iraq, because we are a basic part of Iraq and want to
build a new Iraq side by side with the other Iraqis," wondering
"why some have such fears." He also says that "the entire Kurdistan
Region is part of Iraq regardless of the future status of Kirkuk,"
he says, adding that "Kirkuk in inhabited by Kurds, Turkmen, Arabs,
Chaldeans, Assyrians, and some Armenians." The Ottomans' documents
and maps "show that Kirkuk is part of the Kurdistan Region," he says,
adding that "the original copy of the map is being kept at the Iraqi
Council of Representatives." The Ottoman Encyclopedias, including the
Al-I'lam Dictionary prepared by Turkish Writer Shams-al-Din Sami,
show that "Kirkuk is a Kurdish city inhabited by Kurds, Turkmen,
Arabs, and some Jews and Chaldeans," he says, stressing that "three
quarters of the city's inhabitants are Kurds" and that "the Arabs
and Turkmen formed only one quarter."
Asked on whether the ICJ will take much time to find a solution to the
Kirkuk issue, Al-Barazanji says that "we are still working to reach
a solution in accordance with the constitution, which has been voted
for by the Iraqi people and which includes articles 140 and 143." The
latter article, he says, "has cancelled the State Administration Law
of the transitional period, with the exception of Article 53 which
defines the borders of the Kurdistan Region." Article 58 on Kirkuk,
he says, "includes paragraphs on how to normalize the situation and
amend the administrative border, which was distorted by the former
regime to change the demographic makeup of the city."
Asked if he has evidence that Kirkuk is part of the Kurdistan Region,
Al-Barazanji says that "the Ottoman and British documents and the
Al-I'lam Dictionary show that Kirkuk is part of the Kurdistan Region"
and that "if the problem had been solved in accordance with the July
agreement, Iraq would have avoided many problems." He also says that
"we do not want to regain Kirkuk by force, since Kirkuk is an Iraqi
city with a Kurdish identity."
Asked if the Turkmen Front supports the proposal to refer the
Kirkuk issue to the ICJ, Turani says that "the Turkmen Front has not
been informed of the proposal" and that "the Kirkuk issue cannot be
resolved under Article 140 or through referendum on the future status
of Kirkuk." He also says that "the best way to resolve this issue is
for the Turkmen, Kurds, Arabs, Chaldeans, and Assyrians - the main
components of the city - to reach a political accord on the city's
future status." He also says that "Article 24 of the constitution,
as well as national consensus, stresses the need to reach a political
accord and establish a joint administration of the city" and that
"the International Court of Justice will not be able to resolve
the Kirkuk issue." Regarding the said documents referring to Kirkuk
as a Kurdish city, he says, "I would like to say that Sham-al-Din
Sami, who prepared the Al-I'lam Dictionary, was not a traveller,
never visited Kirkuk, and relied on baseless documents," adding that
"we have an official Ottoman document confirming that Kirkuk is a
Turkmen city." He also says that "the Kirkuk issue can be resolved
only through a national accord," that "the Turkmen and Arabs have not
been given any key role in the administration of the city," and that
"we have called for a joint administration in Kirkuk since the fall
of the former regime." The Arab and Turkmen members of the Kirkuk
Governorate Council "have proposed that the city should not be linked
to any region in the country," he says, adding that "the Iraqi State
Administration Law, particularly Article 53, refers to the dangerous
situation in the city and stresses that the city cannot be annexed to
any region." But the writers of the current constitution, he says,
"replaced Article 53 by Article 58, and the Kurdish brothers set 31
December 2007 as a time ceiling for resolving the issue in accordance
with Article 140." Therefore, "we announced that the issue could not
be resolved by the abovementioned date under Article 140," he says,
adding that "Article 142, which is part of the Iraqi Constitution,
calls for amending some articles of the constitution to resolve the
Kirkuk issue."
The anchorman says that "the proposal to refer the issue to the ICJ
was made after the Arabs and Turkmen declared their adherence to
Article 24."
Al-Barazanji says that "I agree with Turani that the city of Kirkuk
should be administered jointly and that the Turkmen should exercise
their cultural, administrative, political, and educational rights
whether or not the city is annexed to the Kurdistan Region." He also
says that "the Turkmen are dear brothers," that "Turkish names in the
city are not evidence that the city is Turkmen," and that "the Ottomans
ruled the region for 400 years." He says that there "are Turkish names
in Egypt, Tunisia, and other countries because the Ottomans ruled the
region in the name of Islam." Some say that "Article 140 is no longer
valid - and this is not true - but everybody knows that Article 158 is
still valid," he says, warning that "the failure to solve this serious
problem will destabilize Iraq," criticizing the Al-Maliki government
for "failing to implement paragraph 22 of the policy statement." He
also says that "if the Turkmen become part of the Kurdistan Region,
they will probably occupy the post of a deputy prime minister, about
25 parliament seats, and five or six ministerial posts" and that
"the Kurdistan Region's Government will defend their rights."
Asked if he has been informed of a proposal to refer the Kirkuk issue
to the ICJ, Al-Ubaydi says that "I have heard about this strange
proposal," stressing that "the issue can be resolved through wisdom,
accord, dialogue, and understanding." From the beginning, "we said that
the issue could be resolved through accord and a joint administration
in the city under the 2 December 2007 agreement, which calls for
giving the Arabs 32 per cent of the administrative responsibilities
in the city." He says that "an agreement is included in disputed
Article 24," that "the problem can be solved easily through mutual
confidence, which does not exist between us and the Kurdish List at
the Kirkuk Governorate Council," and that "an investment committee
to be formed in two days will be headed by a figure close to the
Kurds." Once the Arabs "are given 32 per cent of the seats of the
city's administrative council, the problem will be solved," he says,
adding that "Article 140 should be referred to the committee in charge
of amending the constitution" and that "I object to any plan to refer
the Kirkuk issue to the ICJ."
From: Baghdasarian
Al-Sharqiyah TV
Program: The Harvest
Aug 18 2008
United Arab Emirates
Interviewee: Sa'di al-Barazanji, a leading figure in the Kurdistan Alliance
Interviewee: Hasan Turani, a leading figure in the Turkoman Front,
Interviewee: Ahmad al-Ubaydi, member of the Arab Unity Bloc in Kirkuk,
Asked if the Kurds, Arabs, and Turkmen have agreed to refer the
Kirkuk issue to the ICJ, Al-Barazanji says that "no Kurdistan
Alliance official has heard about this proposal." This is the
first time I have heard about this issue, he says, adding that
"we are still trying to solve problems related to Kirkuk and the
other disputed areas under Article 140 of the constitution and the
relevant laws." To my knowledge, he says, "the committee in charge of
the application of Article 140 is still working on a plan to normalize
the situation in the city by organizing a census and a referendum." In
another development, he says, "the UN secretary general's special
representative has stated that the United Nations is ready to help
the Iraqi Government resolve the internal borders issue in accordance
with UN Security Council Resolution No 1770." A UN body, he says,
"has already begun investigations and field work and holds meetings
with the city's residents to prepare for a political accord," adding
that "two groups are working in parallel on this issue" and that
"we have not yet exhausted constitutional and legal means to find a
solution." As I have said, he says, "if we fail to find a solution in
accordance with the constitution and through political means, then we
may seek international arbitration," adding that "the Kirkuk problem
has created many problems and triggered wars since the establishment of
the State of Iraq." Mustafa Barzani, he says, "turned down then Vice
President Saddam Husayn's proposal that the city be divided into two
halves in accordance with the July 1970 agreement." He says that "under
the agreement, one half east of the Khasa River would have been part
of the then proposed Autonomous Region and the other half west of the
river would have been outside the Autonomous Region." Saddam, he says,
"proposed a second solution based on the results of the 1957 census
to define the Autonomous Region's administrative borders and annex
the largely Kurdish areas to the Autonomous Region." Regrettably,
he says, "the second solution, which was accepted by the Kurdish
leadership, has not been applied honestly by the Iraqi Government
which found out that if the results of the said census are accepted,
Kirkuk will become part of the Autonomous Region." In my view,
"if this problem remains unsolved, Iraqis will not enjoy stability,"
he says, urging those saying that "Article 140 is no longer valid to
reconsider their position." Expressing his respect for all Iraqis,
even those objecting to his views, he says that "we will not break
away from Iraq, because we are a basic part of Iraq and want to
build a new Iraq side by side with the other Iraqis," wondering
"why some have such fears." He also says that "the entire Kurdistan
Region is part of Iraq regardless of the future status of Kirkuk,"
he says, adding that "Kirkuk in inhabited by Kurds, Turkmen, Arabs,
Chaldeans, Assyrians, and some Armenians." The Ottomans' documents
and maps "show that Kirkuk is part of the Kurdistan Region," he says,
adding that "the original copy of the map is being kept at the Iraqi
Council of Representatives." The Ottoman Encyclopedias, including the
Al-I'lam Dictionary prepared by Turkish Writer Shams-al-Din Sami,
show that "Kirkuk is a Kurdish city inhabited by Kurds, Turkmen,
Arabs, and some Jews and Chaldeans," he says, stressing that "three
quarters of the city's inhabitants are Kurds" and that "the Arabs
and Turkmen formed only one quarter."
Asked on whether the ICJ will take much time to find a solution to the
Kirkuk issue, Al-Barazanji says that "we are still working to reach
a solution in accordance with the constitution, which has been voted
for by the Iraqi people and which includes articles 140 and 143." The
latter article, he says, "has cancelled the State Administration Law
of the transitional period, with the exception of Article 53 which
defines the borders of the Kurdistan Region." Article 58 on Kirkuk,
he says, "includes paragraphs on how to normalize the situation and
amend the administrative border, which was distorted by the former
regime to change the demographic makeup of the city."
Asked if he has evidence that Kirkuk is part of the Kurdistan Region,
Al-Barazanji says that "the Ottoman and British documents and the
Al-I'lam Dictionary show that Kirkuk is part of the Kurdistan Region"
and that "if the problem had been solved in accordance with the July
agreement, Iraq would have avoided many problems." He also says that
"we do not want to regain Kirkuk by force, since Kirkuk is an Iraqi
city with a Kurdish identity."
Asked if the Turkmen Front supports the proposal to refer the
Kirkuk issue to the ICJ, Turani says that "the Turkmen Front has not
been informed of the proposal" and that "the Kirkuk issue cannot be
resolved under Article 140 or through referendum on the future status
of Kirkuk." He also says that "the best way to resolve this issue is
for the Turkmen, Kurds, Arabs, Chaldeans, and Assyrians - the main
components of the city - to reach a political accord on the city's
future status." He also says that "Article 24 of the constitution,
as well as national consensus, stresses the need to reach a political
accord and establish a joint administration of the city" and that
"the International Court of Justice will not be able to resolve
the Kirkuk issue." Regarding the said documents referring to Kirkuk
as a Kurdish city, he says, "I would like to say that Sham-al-Din
Sami, who prepared the Al-I'lam Dictionary, was not a traveller,
never visited Kirkuk, and relied on baseless documents," adding that
"we have an official Ottoman document confirming that Kirkuk is a
Turkmen city." He also says that "the Kirkuk issue can be resolved
only through a national accord," that "the Turkmen and Arabs have not
been given any key role in the administration of the city," and that
"we have called for a joint administration in Kirkuk since the fall
of the former regime." The Arab and Turkmen members of the Kirkuk
Governorate Council "have proposed that the city should not be linked
to any region in the country," he says, adding that "the Iraqi State
Administration Law, particularly Article 53, refers to the dangerous
situation in the city and stresses that the city cannot be annexed to
any region." But the writers of the current constitution, he says,
"replaced Article 53 by Article 58, and the Kurdish brothers set 31
December 2007 as a time ceiling for resolving the issue in accordance
with Article 140." Therefore, "we announced that the issue could not
be resolved by the abovementioned date under Article 140," he says,
adding that "Article 142, which is part of the Iraqi Constitution,
calls for amending some articles of the constitution to resolve the
Kirkuk issue."
The anchorman says that "the proposal to refer the issue to the ICJ
was made after the Arabs and Turkmen declared their adherence to
Article 24."
Al-Barazanji says that "I agree with Turani that the city of Kirkuk
should be administered jointly and that the Turkmen should exercise
their cultural, administrative, political, and educational rights
whether or not the city is annexed to the Kurdistan Region." He also
says that "the Turkmen are dear brothers," that "Turkish names in the
city are not evidence that the city is Turkmen," and that "the Ottomans
ruled the region for 400 years." He says that there "are Turkish names
in Egypt, Tunisia, and other countries because the Ottomans ruled the
region in the name of Islam." Some say that "Article 140 is no longer
valid - and this is not true - but everybody knows that Article 158 is
still valid," he says, warning that "the failure to solve this serious
problem will destabilize Iraq," criticizing the Al-Maliki government
for "failing to implement paragraph 22 of the policy statement." He
also says that "if the Turkmen become part of the Kurdistan Region,
they will probably occupy the post of a deputy prime minister, about
25 parliament seats, and five or six ministerial posts" and that
"the Kurdistan Region's Government will defend their rights."
Asked if he has been informed of a proposal to refer the Kirkuk issue
to the ICJ, Al-Ubaydi says that "I have heard about this strange
proposal," stressing that "the issue can be resolved through wisdom,
accord, dialogue, and understanding." From the beginning, "we said that
the issue could be resolved through accord and a joint administration
in the city under the 2 December 2007 agreement, which calls for
giving the Arabs 32 per cent of the administrative responsibilities
in the city." He says that "an agreement is included in disputed
Article 24," that "the problem can be solved easily through mutual
confidence, which does not exist between us and the Kurdish List at
the Kirkuk Governorate Council," and that "an investment committee
to be formed in two days will be headed by a figure close to the
Kurds." Once the Arabs "are given 32 per cent of the seats of the
city's administrative council, the problem will be solved," he says,
adding that "Article 140 should be referred to the committee in charge
of amending the constitution" and that "I object to any plan to refer
the Kirkuk issue to the ICJ."
From: Baghdasarian