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MAHMUD KARIMOV: "IT'S EXACT THAT SHAUMYAN'S BODY WAS NOT IN SAHIL PARK MASS GRAVE"
APA
April 20 2009
Azerbaijan
It is an unbearable fact that the average monthly salary of scientists
is less than AZN 150
"It is not secret that a number of researchers are paying other people
to write dissertations for them, today every official or member of
the parliament wants to be a scientist".
President of Azerbaijan National Academy of Sciences Mahmud Karimov
interviewed by APA
-How do you evaluate last year activity of Azerbaijan National Academy
of Sciences (ANAS) having 9000 employees?
-Last year was very important for ANAS. Several significant orders
were issued on the development of science in 2008. I would like
to note especially President Ilham Aliyev's order on "Development
strategy of Azerbaijani science in 2009-2015". State commission was
established to carry out this strategy. The strategy has already
been prepared and presented to president. This is an all-round
document. Plan of measures have been prepared to carry out this
strategy. Last year AZN 1 million was allocated from the President's
Reserve Fund for launching expeditions. AZN 1 million was allocated to
restore things and buy new materials for the Museum of History, AZN
5 million was allocated to repair Shamakhy Astrophysical Observatory
and buy new equipment. Salaries of ANAS employees were increased by
25 percent. These orders show the president's special attention to
the science.
-When will reforms start in ANAS?
-The strategy envisages monitoring of scientific-research institutions
network. This will make available to determine what structural changes
will be made in ANAS. The strategy also envisages qualification of
scientific employees and improvement of logistics. If the strategy
and plan of measures are approved, we will immediately start
reforms. Present scientific situation should be studied first of
all. The activity of every scientific-research institution should be
assessed. The efficiency of scientific-research institutions should
be examined. Several normative legal documents should also be adopted
in connection with the reforms. These documents will be prepared soon,
because the reforms require adoption of new laws.
-The reforms also envisage staff reduction ...
-Yes, they do. But we consider that reduction can not be made just for
the sake of reduction. It should be grounded, because we do not have
mechanisms to carry out staff reduction. Attestation of scientists
does not make it available. It is possible to change the post as a
result of attestation. It is impossible to dismiss as a result of
the attestation. It requires new legal documents so that we can have
legal grounds to carry out reduction. On the other hand, we should
determine for ourselves how many scientific employees there must be in
the country. According to UNESCO recommendations, developed countries
should be 50 scientists per 10 000 people. There are 20 scientists per
10 000 people in Azerbaijan. If we reduce the staff, we will reduce
this figure. How much is it expedient, if we want to establish a
developed state? If we want to be an educated and developed nation,
we should protect science and create all conditions for scientists.
-How much is the average monthly salary of the scientists working
in ANAS?
-The average monthly salary of scientists is less than AZN 150. I
think this is unbearable.
-Do you think scientists can live and engage in normal scientific
activity on this salary?
-A scientist can neither live nor work efficiently on this
salary. That's why, scientists are obliged to work and earn money in
another place. They are obliged to do it. If scientists had normal
salaries and working conditions, they would not have worked in other
places. Some scientists teach in other places, some tutor. Sometimes
we are reproached that employees are not at work from 9.00 till
18.00. If they sit in the academy all day long, they can not support
their families. I think it will change gradually. Salaries are
increased year after year. Our international coope5ration is now
saving ANAS from this situation. Due to this cooperation, we can
get extra allocations. Scientists can get extra salary due to these
grants. By participating in joint programs, they can get extra salary,
go abroad and carry out scientific research work. Last year about 600
scientific employees were sent abroad to attend various scientific
conferences. Before, we had no such opportunities.
-"Brain drain" tendency accelerated in Azerbaijan some years ago. What
is the level of this problem now?
-This tendency has reduced. There are very few brain drainers
now. There is no problem of "brain drain" in Azerbaijan now. On the
contrary, we stimulate young scientists to go abroad, of course on
condition that they will return. We want them to work in the leading
scientific centers and gain experience.
-But the process of juvenation is not felt in ANAS. How many young
scientists have come to the academy recently?
-The interest of the youth in science has not passed yet. There
is great competition during the admission to the post-graduate
courses. Sometimes five or six apply for one vacancy. We want to
involve young scientists to work, but we have very few vacancies. We do
not have vacancies to provide young scientists with work. It would be
very good if we could pension off old scientists and recruit younger
scientific employees. But we can not pension off old scientists,
because their pension is very little. If their pensions were equal
to 80 percent of the salaries, most scientists would have retired on
a pension themselves. Unfortunately, the number of old scientists in
the academy is not little.
-How old is the oldest scientist of the academy?
-The oldest member of the academy is 96. Directors of some institutes
are 80 years old. This is not pleasant. It would be better to involve
younger scientists to the academy. But because of the above-mentioned
reasons, the old do not retire on pension. Generally, there is ageing
process in the academy. 20 years ago candidates of sciences were
35-40 years old, now this figure reached 50. Doctors of science are
60-70 years old.
- Is the spring census considered to be implemented in the new
strategy?
- Yes. There are certain measures to be taken in the new strategy. We
have to take measures for rejuvenation of the Academy, but at first we
have to secure the social protection of the scientists. I think that
the scientists, who take the administrative posts, should be at most
65-70. This issue can also be approached individually. If the scientist
has scientific achievements and a great school, let him to work.
-You had to ask the President to resolve the housing problem of the
young scientists.
-It is our most painful problem. It is a problem of not only the young,
but aged scientists as well. We don't know how to resolve it. We
have only residential hostel. It is almost out of control. We can't
to accommodate the young scientists there and can't move anyone from
it. Therefore the condition is hard. The issue should be resolved by
any way.
-Are you satisfied with the activity of Azerbaijani scientists against
the Armenian propaganda on a world scale?
-It needs to be more active in this field. The Institute of History
holds large campaign via Internet. The Human Rights Institute and the
Institute of Philosophy and Political-Legal Researches are also active.
-The Academy's most strategic institutes like the Institute of History,
Archeology and Ethnography, the Institute of Oriental Studies have
no their websites so far.
-It is not normal when the institutes have no websites. The institutes
of natural sciences have their websites. I am demanding all institutes
to launch their websites. It is impossible to provide normal activity
without the website.
-How are the researches of 26 Baku Commissars? Does the Academy of
Sciences have new findings?
-The researches are going on. The Institute of History will publish
soon several articles on this issue. Very interesting facts, telegrams
and correspondences were found. A TV program is prepared about the
researches. I don't make detailed reports on this.
-Were those, whose bodies were not found in the Sahil Park, identified
or not?
- It's exact that Shaumyan's body was not in Sahil Park mass grave. Two
others have not been identified yet.
-The results of Academy's work related to the mass grave in Guba
are also under the threat. The last year torrents removed one of
undermines. Can the Academy ask the relevant organizations to build
museum in the mass grave area?
-The Academy asked them and made its proposals for several times. The
Academy resolved all issues depended on it. Unfortunately there is
still no museum in the mass grave are we found. It will be better
to take measures to save the mass grave. Even I am proposing to
launch a criminal case on the facts found there. The issue should be
investigated more deeply and be evaluated.
-What is your opinion about the call-up of masters to the military
service?
- I have univocal opinion. I am against the call-up of masters. They
should have deferment right. They have to draw duty after graduation
from the Master's program and post-graduate studies program.
-What resources are allocated from the state budget to the science? Are
you satisfied with these resources?
--There is a big growth in the volume of state budget allocations
for the sciences as against the previous years, but it is not
satisfactory yet. The development of sciences has its rules. If the
scientific allocations are less than 2% of GDP, the science will have
no impact on the economy. In our country, these resources are 0.2%
of GDP. If we want to make the science more useful for the economy,
we have to provide it with relevant budget. This figure exceeded 2%
in the European countries. We can't develop the science up to the
necessary level with such funding.
-How do you think, what spheres are most-developed and what are the
less-developed in the Academy?
-The Earth sciences are always strong. The sphere of informatics is
also not lagging behind. We have great achievements in the sphere of
linguistics, literary studies and philosophy. The spheres, which need
in the strong scientific basis and equipments, are lagging behind. We
have a lot of talented scientists in the fields of Chemistry and
Physics. If we have strong material and technical basis, we can conduct
the high-level researches. It is encouraging fact that the Academy
is funded for two years in succession to purchase the laboratory
equipments. Two million AZN was allocated last year. We have already
purchased these equipments and will bring it this summer. This year
we received 10 million AZN for the equipments.
-Sometimes the people complain about the activity of High Attestation
Commission and delaying of granting the scientific degrees. What is
the Academy's president thinking about that?
-Sometimes we blame the High Attestation Commission, but the research
works are evaluated at first by the defend councils. The councils allow
the weak researchers to defend their works and then we are blaming
the High Attestation Commission. The leading scientists are working
at the Academy, but due to some reasons most of the defend councils
are subordinated to the universities. These issues concern us. The
Academy's scientists prepared 18 Doctor's and 127 PhD dissertations
last year. One of the problems is that the number of dissertations is
delayed at the High Attestation Commission and they are delaying this
process artificially. May be they have their own polices and they think
that the country can't have so many doctors and it need to reduce their
number. One of the concerned issues is that the most of dissertations
are related to the spheres of economy, legal studies and literature,
but not the exact sciences. One of the reasons is that it is possible
to defend the dissertation in those fields without researches. It is
not secret that the number of researchers are asking other people to
write dissertations and paying them for that. Today every official
or member of the parliament wants to be a scientist. They are not
able to conduct research works and therefore they are paying for
dissertations increasing the number of works submitted to the High
Attestation Commission.
APA
April 20 2009
Azerbaijan
It is an unbearable fact that the average monthly salary of scientists
is less than AZN 150
"It is not secret that a number of researchers are paying other people
to write dissertations for them, today every official or member of
the parliament wants to be a scientist".
President of Azerbaijan National Academy of Sciences Mahmud Karimov
interviewed by APA
-How do you evaluate last year activity of Azerbaijan National Academy
of Sciences (ANAS) having 9000 employees?
-Last year was very important for ANAS. Several significant orders
were issued on the development of science in 2008. I would like
to note especially President Ilham Aliyev's order on "Development
strategy of Azerbaijani science in 2009-2015". State commission was
established to carry out this strategy. The strategy has already
been prepared and presented to president. This is an all-round
document. Plan of measures have been prepared to carry out this
strategy. Last year AZN 1 million was allocated from the President's
Reserve Fund for launching expeditions. AZN 1 million was allocated to
restore things and buy new materials for the Museum of History, AZN
5 million was allocated to repair Shamakhy Astrophysical Observatory
and buy new equipment. Salaries of ANAS employees were increased by
25 percent. These orders show the president's special attention to
the science.
-When will reforms start in ANAS?
-The strategy envisages monitoring of scientific-research institutions
network. This will make available to determine what structural changes
will be made in ANAS. The strategy also envisages qualification of
scientific employees and improvement of logistics. If the strategy
and plan of measures are approved, we will immediately start
reforms. Present scientific situation should be studied first of
all. The activity of every scientific-research institution should be
assessed. The efficiency of scientific-research institutions should
be examined. Several normative legal documents should also be adopted
in connection with the reforms. These documents will be prepared soon,
because the reforms require adoption of new laws.
-The reforms also envisage staff reduction ...
-Yes, they do. But we consider that reduction can not be made just for
the sake of reduction. It should be grounded, because we do not have
mechanisms to carry out staff reduction. Attestation of scientists
does not make it available. It is possible to change the post as a
result of attestation. It is impossible to dismiss as a result of
the attestation. It requires new legal documents so that we can have
legal grounds to carry out reduction. On the other hand, we should
determine for ourselves how many scientific employees there must be in
the country. According to UNESCO recommendations, developed countries
should be 50 scientists per 10 000 people. There are 20 scientists per
10 000 people in Azerbaijan. If we reduce the staff, we will reduce
this figure. How much is it expedient, if we want to establish a
developed state? If we want to be an educated and developed nation,
we should protect science and create all conditions for scientists.
-How much is the average monthly salary of the scientists working
in ANAS?
-The average monthly salary of scientists is less than AZN 150. I
think this is unbearable.
-Do you think scientists can live and engage in normal scientific
activity on this salary?
-A scientist can neither live nor work efficiently on this
salary. That's why, scientists are obliged to work and earn money in
another place. They are obliged to do it. If scientists had normal
salaries and working conditions, they would not have worked in other
places. Some scientists teach in other places, some tutor. Sometimes
we are reproached that employees are not at work from 9.00 till
18.00. If they sit in the academy all day long, they can not support
their families. I think it will change gradually. Salaries are
increased year after year. Our international coope5ration is now
saving ANAS from this situation. Due to this cooperation, we can
get extra allocations. Scientists can get extra salary due to these
grants. By participating in joint programs, they can get extra salary,
go abroad and carry out scientific research work. Last year about 600
scientific employees were sent abroad to attend various scientific
conferences. Before, we had no such opportunities.
-"Brain drain" tendency accelerated in Azerbaijan some years ago. What
is the level of this problem now?
-This tendency has reduced. There are very few brain drainers
now. There is no problem of "brain drain" in Azerbaijan now. On the
contrary, we stimulate young scientists to go abroad, of course on
condition that they will return. We want them to work in the leading
scientific centers and gain experience.
-But the process of juvenation is not felt in ANAS. How many young
scientists have come to the academy recently?
-The interest of the youth in science has not passed yet. There
is great competition during the admission to the post-graduate
courses. Sometimes five or six apply for one vacancy. We want to
involve young scientists to work, but we have very few vacancies. We do
not have vacancies to provide young scientists with work. It would be
very good if we could pension off old scientists and recruit younger
scientific employees. But we can not pension off old scientists,
because their pension is very little. If their pensions were equal
to 80 percent of the salaries, most scientists would have retired on
a pension themselves. Unfortunately, the number of old scientists in
the academy is not little.
-How old is the oldest scientist of the academy?
-The oldest member of the academy is 96. Directors of some institutes
are 80 years old. This is not pleasant. It would be better to involve
younger scientists to the academy. But because of the above-mentioned
reasons, the old do not retire on pension. Generally, there is ageing
process in the academy. 20 years ago candidates of sciences were
35-40 years old, now this figure reached 50. Doctors of science are
60-70 years old.
- Is the spring census considered to be implemented in the new
strategy?
- Yes. There are certain measures to be taken in the new strategy. We
have to take measures for rejuvenation of the Academy, but at first we
have to secure the social protection of the scientists. I think that
the scientists, who take the administrative posts, should be at most
65-70. This issue can also be approached individually. If the scientist
has scientific achievements and a great school, let him to work.
-You had to ask the President to resolve the housing problem of the
young scientists.
-It is our most painful problem. It is a problem of not only the young,
but aged scientists as well. We don't know how to resolve it. We
have only residential hostel. It is almost out of control. We can't
to accommodate the young scientists there and can't move anyone from
it. Therefore the condition is hard. The issue should be resolved by
any way.
-Are you satisfied with the activity of Azerbaijani scientists against
the Armenian propaganda on a world scale?
-It needs to be more active in this field. The Institute of History
holds large campaign via Internet. The Human Rights Institute and the
Institute of Philosophy and Political-Legal Researches are also active.
-The Academy's most strategic institutes like the Institute of History,
Archeology and Ethnography, the Institute of Oriental Studies have
no their websites so far.
-It is not normal when the institutes have no websites. The institutes
of natural sciences have their websites. I am demanding all institutes
to launch their websites. It is impossible to provide normal activity
without the website.
-How are the researches of 26 Baku Commissars? Does the Academy of
Sciences have new findings?
-The researches are going on. The Institute of History will publish
soon several articles on this issue. Very interesting facts, telegrams
and correspondences were found. A TV program is prepared about the
researches. I don't make detailed reports on this.
-Were those, whose bodies were not found in the Sahil Park, identified
or not?
- It's exact that Shaumyan's body was not in Sahil Park mass grave. Two
others have not been identified yet.
-The results of Academy's work related to the mass grave in Guba
are also under the threat. The last year torrents removed one of
undermines. Can the Academy ask the relevant organizations to build
museum in the mass grave area?
-The Academy asked them and made its proposals for several times. The
Academy resolved all issues depended on it. Unfortunately there is
still no museum in the mass grave are we found. It will be better
to take measures to save the mass grave. Even I am proposing to
launch a criminal case on the facts found there. The issue should be
investigated more deeply and be evaluated.
-What is your opinion about the call-up of masters to the military
service?
- I have univocal opinion. I am against the call-up of masters. They
should have deferment right. They have to draw duty after graduation
from the Master's program and post-graduate studies program.
-What resources are allocated from the state budget to the science? Are
you satisfied with these resources?
--There is a big growth in the volume of state budget allocations
for the sciences as against the previous years, but it is not
satisfactory yet. The development of sciences has its rules. If the
scientific allocations are less than 2% of GDP, the science will have
no impact on the economy. In our country, these resources are 0.2%
of GDP. If we want to make the science more useful for the economy,
we have to provide it with relevant budget. This figure exceeded 2%
in the European countries. We can't develop the science up to the
necessary level with such funding.
-How do you think, what spheres are most-developed and what are the
less-developed in the Academy?
-The Earth sciences are always strong. The sphere of informatics is
also not lagging behind. We have great achievements in the sphere of
linguistics, literary studies and philosophy. The spheres, which need
in the strong scientific basis and equipments, are lagging behind. We
have a lot of talented scientists in the fields of Chemistry and
Physics. If we have strong material and technical basis, we can conduct
the high-level researches. It is encouraging fact that the Academy
is funded for two years in succession to purchase the laboratory
equipments. Two million AZN was allocated last year. We have already
purchased these equipments and will bring it this summer. This year
we received 10 million AZN for the equipments.
-Sometimes the people complain about the activity of High Attestation
Commission and delaying of granting the scientific degrees. What is
the Academy's president thinking about that?
-Sometimes we blame the High Attestation Commission, but the research
works are evaluated at first by the defend councils. The councils allow
the weak researchers to defend their works and then we are blaming
the High Attestation Commission. The leading scientists are working
at the Academy, but due to some reasons most of the defend councils
are subordinated to the universities. These issues concern us. The
Academy's scientists prepared 18 Doctor's and 127 PhD dissertations
last year. One of the problems is that the number of dissertations is
delayed at the High Attestation Commission and they are delaying this
process artificially. May be they have their own polices and they think
that the country can't have so many doctors and it need to reduce their
number. One of the concerned issues is that the most of dissertations
are related to the spheres of economy, legal studies and literature,
but not the exact sciences. One of the reasons is that it is possible
to defend the dissertation in those fields without researches. It is
not secret that the number of researchers are asking other people to
write dissertations and paying them for that. Today every official
or member of the parliament wants to be a scientist. They are not
able to conduct research works and therefore they are paying for
dissertations increasing the number of works submitted to the High
Attestation Commission.