Tweet
THE GOAL IS NOT THE POST
http://www.lragir.am/src/index.php?id=societ y&pid=14950
16:58:45 - 18/08/2009
Interview By Siranuish Papyan
Ara Petrosyan, artist, member of the Art Lab, has had the show "Spatial
Expansion", participated in the show "Resistance" following March 1.
In your opinion, what is the intelligentsia and what is the civil
stance of the intelligentsia today?
First of all, I should say that I do not accept and understand the term
"intelligentsia". I read this question in your interviews and I tried
to answer it. I think this is nonsense we inherited from totalitarian
systems, such as Tsarist Russia or the Soviet Union. And we must rid
of this nonsense as soon as possible. I will try to explain why it
is nonsense. When we say intelligentsia, the impression is that the
society has a class which is self-sufficient, which has bright thoughts
and clean hands, but the reality is different. There is no such class
as the intelligentsia in Armenia or elsewhere. Certainly, there are
people who have the ability to think but there are such people in
every sphere of life. There are a lot of people who think they have
the right to be called the intelligentsia but these people do not
have independent thinking, the ability, wish and "risk" to express
ideas. And the only reason to call these people the intelligentsia
is their university diplomas or degrees which have no importance to
me. For me as a citizen their civil stance is interesting. I measure
a person with this measurement. If you want to make sure whether
the given person is intelligentsia or not, you should recall the
public speeches of the person over the past year. For me, there is
only one measurement of the intelligentsia, the civil stance which
is expressed publicly. If the given person has not expressed publicly
their opinion on March 1, the political prisoners, other urgent issues,
that kind of the intelligentsia does not exist for me. In this sense,
there is no term "the intelligentsia", or there are no people who
deserve being called the intelligentsia, people with ideas.
When you say public speeches of the past year, do you mean after
March 1? Did it become clear to you after March 1 that there is no
such class at that moment?
Simply after March 1 everything became clear. Generally, I think March
1 was the de facto establishment of the modern history of Armenia, the
third republic, and the society decided that after this establishment
it is possible to see how the person behaved. I do not mean that the
person should have stood beside me in the rallies and marches. The
problem is the stance of that person because if he thinks that he has
a stance and he thinks that what he is saying is important to someone,
he must say what happened in reality. And we all know what happened,
how it happened.
What happened on March 1?
To put it figuratively, March 1 was the end of tolerance because the
elections of 2008 were not the first rigged elections. There had been
rigged elections in 1995, 1998, but March 1 was the end of tolerating
falsehood which had been lasting since 1995.
You say since 1995 but at that time Levon Ter-Petrosyan was in office,
and now it is the continuation of the mechanism he set up. Do you
believe that if Levon Ter-Petrosyan comes to power, this problem will
be solved, and the elections will be free?
First of all, a person cannot be crossed out if that person makes
a mistake. To err is human, and those who do nothing do not err. If
you remember, Levon Ter-Petrosyan marked his return to politics by
apologizing to people. It means in the past ten years this person
re-evaluated what he did, and in what he did there are more good
things than bad things. I admit that those elections were rigged, and
by the way I was among the persons who attacked the National Assembly.
Does it mean that if this government apologizes several years later,
we are ready to forgive them?
I am not ready. The only thing I was displeased with this man was
the elections of 1996, which I forgave him because he admitted his
mistake. Levon Ter-Petrosyan said I had fetched them, and I am here to
clear them away. I want to be the tool in this process of clearing. And
this government cannot be forgiven for March 1.
Do you believe in early presidential elections?
Nothing should be ruled out, and I think everything is headed for
it, there will be early elections. Six months earlier or later does
not matter. At least I am convinced that the person who took up the
presidential office in the presidential election 2008 will not remain
till the end of his term as provided by the Constitution.
Why, because he has no power?
No, there is physical power but time shows that it can have the effect
of a boomerang. The problem is resources, the world felt what kind
of a person it deals with and is playing the game. Now that all the
internal resources have expired, and he is trying to fill in the gap
through outside forces, he fails.
Do you think that if Levon Ter-Petrosyan comes to power, a lot of
problems of our society will be solved?
Even if you have smashed the egg, you must be careful to make an
omelet, smashing the egg is not enough. Of course, there will be
a psychological wakening because the grain and the chaff have been
separated, and now the chaff cannot reach its aim and continue what
it fought against. Simply it is necessary to keep the finger on the
"remote controller" and uproot all the authoritarian inclinations
which are typical of all the countries, especially young states.
Now the Armenian National Congress seems to have adopted the
Constitutional way, and on this way the society seems to be
disappointed, they say the ANC is growing weaker. What is your opinion
as someone inside? Is it true?
No, the ANC is not weakening, simply as Ter-Petrosyan said in one of
the rallies, it is not important to stand up, it is important to stay
on foot. When you go to those rallies and marches, you think it will be
followed by a stage of actions, and you are disappointed when you are
told the next rally is in four months. However, time showed that this
is the right way rather than illogical, meaningless confrontation. I
think Levon Ter-Petrosyan's advantage is that he teaches the so-called
"hotheaded" ones (and I am one of them) that one must be patient,
and the goal now is not to seize the post, the goal is to have an
irretrievable victory. In other words, to rule out further attempts at
ruling out authoritarianism in Armenia. Many people say after February
26 Ter-Petrosyan should have taken the post but I think that Levon was
right to avoid clashes. If we forget that there would have been more
victims, victory won in that way would be the victory of violence,
and it would not lead the society anywhere. And next time people would
again gather at 26 Baghramyan Street and we would appear in circle,
the mop would take the chair every time, meanwhile the goal is not
to seize the chair but to be elected to that chair.
And the ANC is not weakening, it is slowly and heavily moving on.
http://www.lragir.am/src/index.php?id=societ y&pid=14950
16:58:45 - 18/08/2009
Interview By Siranuish Papyan
Ara Petrosyan, artist, member of the Art Lab, has had the show "Spatial
Expansion", participated in the show "Resistance" following March 1.
In your opinion, what is the intelligentsia and what is the civil
stance of the intelligentsia today?
First of all, I should say that I do not accept and understand the term
"intelligentsia". I read this question in your interviews and I tried
to answer it. I think this is nonsense we inherited from totalitarian
systems, such as Tsarist Russia or the Soviet Union. And we must rid
of this nonsense as soon as possible. I will try to explain why it
is nonsense. When we say intelligentsia, the impression is that the
society has a class which is self-sufficient, which has bright thoughts
and clean hands, but the reality is different. There is no such class
as the intelligentsia in Armenia or elsewhere. Certainly, there are
people who have the ability to think but there are such people in
every sphere of life. There are a lot of people who think they have
the right to be called the intelligentsia but these people do not
have independent thinking, the ability, wish and "risk" to express
ideas. And the only reason to call these people the intelligentsia
is their university diplomas or degrees which have no importance to
me. For me as a citizen their civil stance is interesting. I measure
a person with this measurement. If you want to make sure whether
the given person is intelligentsia or not, you should recall the
public speeches of the person over the past year. For me, there is
only one measurement of the intelligentsia, the civil stance which
is expressed publicly. If the given person has not expressed publicly
their opinion on March 1, the political prisoners, other urgent issues,
that kind of the intelligentsia does not exist for me. In this sense,
there is no term "the intelligentsia", or there are no people who
deserve being called the intelligentsia, people with ideas.
When you say public speeches of the past year, do you mean after
March 1? Did it become clear to you after March 1 that there is no
such class at that moment?
Simply after March 1 everything became clear. Generally, I think March
1 was the de facto establishment of the modern history of Armenia, the
third republic, and the society decided that after this establishment
it is possible to see how the person behaved. I do not mean that the
person should have stood beside me in the rallies and marches. The
problem is the stance of that person because if he thinks that he has
a stance and he thinks that what he is saying is important to someone,
he must say what happened in reality. And we all know what happened,
how it happened.
What happened on March 1?
To put it figuratively, March 1 was the end of tolerance because the
elections of 2008 were not the first rigged elections. There had been
rigged elections in 1995, 1998, but March 1 was the end of tolerating
falsehood which had been lasting since 1995.
You say since 1995 but at that time Levon Ter-Petrosyan was in office,
and now it is the continuation of the mechanism he set up. Do you
believe that if Levon Ter-Petrosyan comes to power, this problem will
be solved, and the elections will be free?
First of all, a person cannot be crossed out if that person makes
a mistake. To err is human, and those who do nothing do not err. If
you remember, Levon Ter-Petrosyan marked his return to politics by
apologizing to people. It means in the past ten years this person
re-evaluated what he did, and in what he did there are more good
things than bad things. I admit that those elections were rigged, and
by the way I was among the persons who attacked the National Assembly.
Does it mean that if this government apologizes several years later,
we are ready to forgive them?
I am not ready. The only thing I was displeased with this man was
the elections of 1996, which I forgave him because he admitted his
mistake. Levon Ter-Petrosyan said I had fetched them, and I am here to
clear them away. I want to be the tool in this process of clearing. And
this government cannot be forgiven for March 1.
Do you believe in early presidential elections?
Nothing should be ruled out, and I think everything is headed for
it, there will be early elections. Six months earlier or later does
not matter. At least I am convinced that the person who took up the
presidential office in the presidential election 2008 will not remain
till the end of his term as provided by the Constitution.
Why, because he has no power?
No, there is physical power but time shows that it can have the effect
of a boomerang. The problem is resources, the world felt what kind
of a person it deals with and is playing the game. Now that all the
internal resources have expired, and he is trying to fill in the gap
through outside forces, he fails.
Do you think that if Levon Ter-Petrosyan comes to power, a lot of
problems of our society will be solved?
Even if you have smashed the egg, you must be careful to make an
omelet, smashing the egg is not enough. Of course, there will be
a psychological wakening because the grain and the chaff have been
separated, and now the chaff cannot reach its aim and continue what
it fought against. Simply it is necessary to keep the finger on the
"remote controller" and uproot all the authoritarian inclinations
which are typical of all the countries, especially young states.
Now the Armenian National Congress seems to have adopted the
Constitutional way, and on this way the society seems to be
disappointed, they say the ANC is growing weaker. What is your opinion
as someone inside? Is it true?
No, the ANC is not weakening, simply as Ter-Petrosyan said in one of
the rallies, it is not important to stand up, it is important to stay
on foot. When you go to those rallies and marches, you think it will be
followed by a stage of actions, and you are disappointed when you are
told the next rally is in four months. However, time showed that this
is the right way rather than illogical, meaningless confrontation. I
think Levon Ter-Petrosyan's advantage is that he teaches the so-called
"hotheaded" ones (and I am one of them) that one must be patient,
and the goal now is not to seize the post, the goal is to have an
irretrievable victory. In other words, to rule out further attempts at
ruling out authoritarianism in Armenia. Many people say after February
26 Ter-Petrosyan should have taken the post but I think that Levon was
right to avoid clashes. If we forget that there would have been more
victims, victory won in that way would be the victory of violence,
and it would not lead the society anywhere. And next time people would
again gather at 26 Baghramyan Street and we would appear in circle,
the mop would take the chair every time, meanwhile the goal is not
to seize the chair but to be elected to that chair.
And the ANC is not weakening, it is slowly and heavily moving on.