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MANVEL SARGSYAN: TURKS UNLIKE ARMENIANS HAVE ALREADY REALIZED THAT A PROPER FIGHT EVEN FOR A FLOWER WILL LEAD TO A REGIME CHANGE
ArmInfo's interview with Manvel Sargsyan, Director of the Armenian
Center for National and International Studies (ACNIS)
by David Stepanyan
Tuesday, July 2, 14:47
In the light of the degrading political parties in Armenia, the civil
society seems to have assumed their role. This has brought certain
results in the fight against the outrage of the authorities. However,
public movements have been experiencing certain stagnation lately.
Many say that the authorities have again bribed public activists...
The political and psychological situation and discourses have changed
in Armenia over certain period of time. The past few years and the
year 2012, in particular, were unprecedented in terms of the civic
movements. This is a fact we cannot neglect. And this fact could not
but break the ordinary things and initiate fundamentally new discourses
and scenarios. Actually, all this has happened in Armenia and the
ongoing stagnation conveys nothing. Although the civic activeness did
not settle the issues set by civic activists, many issues were settled
then. The political aura that had been created for decades collapsed
due to public activeness, something that is of extreme importance for
us. Nearly all the citizens have realized that everything that had
happened before was senseless. The last presidential and municipal
elections showed that the old and already senseless political system
has finally collapsed. All of us became witnesses of how quickly the
large-scale protests after the presidential elections of February
calmed down. People once gain made sure that since 1996 nothing has
changed in the election system of Armenia. That is why they just left
home and ignored the Yerevan Mayor's election.
What was the role of the civic movements in that process?
Civic movements have cleared up the situation in the country. There
are ongoing processes in Armenia. Hundreds and thousands of people
go to streets and block traffic as a sign of protest, which is the
best display of civic activeness. People fight to save nature that
is damaged for construction of hydro-power plants that will serve
the interests of a group of the rich only.
The civic movements in Armenia made the public realize that they
must fight for their rights independently, because politicians will
never do that for them. This was, probably, the main result of those
movements...
Sure, there are examples of various forms of public protests. The
people have realized all that with the growing public movements. And
political accusations of those movements confirmed that. The civic
activists in the Taksim Square in Turkey hit the final nail in the
coffin of Armenia's political past. After all, the Mashots Park in
Yerevan could grow into a movement similar to that for Gezi Park, but
for the clannish suppression of the movement from all sides, and first
of all, by the efforts of the so-called oppositional parties. In this
light, to overcome the crisis in Turkey, Recep Erdogan just needed to
create a couple of pseudo-oppositional parties like it is practiced in
Armenia. Those parties would easily persuade the people that activists
in the Taksin Square are 'bad people' and they should not join them.
Erdogan's key mistake was to tell that to the people personally.
By the way, do you think that there are pseudo-public movements fed
by the authorities in Armenia?
This is impossible given the reasons of those movements. I don't think
that the authorities need that either. The logic of this process is
inherently against the authorities. They don't need, for instance, the
traffic blocked by the Armavir farmers. I think, when the people go to
streets and raise their problems to the government, such technology
cannot work either in Armenia on anywhere else. The authorities must
realize that a fight for a tree can spiral into a revolution. In
Armenia they do not realize this and Turks in the Taksin Square
demonstrated that. Today, there are quite promising trends here. With
help of the Turkish youth the Armenian party demagogy has collapsed.
In Baku they are well aware of that, given that Azerbaijan has not
responded to the processes in Turkey...
In Baku they do not respond to the processes in Turkey as they are well
aware what it may lead to. The Armenian politicians also understand
this, but they have already failed feeding the public with nonsense
for two years to save their party life and gain dividends. In the
meanwhile, Park Gezi is a bight example of what a fight for a park
may grow into. Therefore, we see certain ideological prostration in
Armenia now and a 100% confidence that the old political system is
useless. In Armenia people cannot understand why Turks and Brazilians
succeed but we don't. The new epoch will answer this question. Turks
have already begun thinking differently and they have already got rid
of stereotypes unlike Armenians. They don't ask why to fight for a
flower when they need to fight for a regime change. They have realized
that a proper fight even for a flower will lead to a regime change. In
Armenia the people does not know this so far, because we have been told
for years that a change of power is possible only through chanting
'Serzhik Leave!' They made us think that we do nothing if we have
no such poster in our hands. In the meanwhile, life has showed that
those who hold such posters do nothing really. What we have now in
Armenia is an active period of revision of everything we have talked
about. And this inspires with hope.
In response to the reproach of Yerevan's certain circles regarding the
weaponry deal with Azerbaijan, Moscow habitually says that shipments
of arms are just business. Nevertheless, the large-scale shipments of
offensive arms to Baku is not the best argument in favor of the OSCE
MG's efforts to maintain the fragile peace in the South Caucasus...
Large-scale shipments of offensive arms to our region cannot be
qualified as business only. Today everybody understands what the
given step of Russia means. I am deeply convinced that this step is
well-considered and Moscow has estimated the consequences, though
Russia is trying to disguise the significance of this step. Today
Russia is trying to strengthen its presence in the region in every
possible way, even by means of such unordinary steps. Meanwhile,
Russia has enough goals in the region, given NATO's strengthening in
Georgia. Certainly, Armenia should have been informed of the deal
beforehand, but history shows that the Armenian society is never
informed of the steps that are of such significance to it.
Do you think that the problem of opposing Armenia's European and
Eurasian integration projects is sophisticated?
Armenia's European and Eurasian integration projects are just topics,
not a goal to set up new geopolitical relations in the region. "My
opinion is based on the lack of specifics, unclearness of the sizes
of the EU Association Agreement project and the Eurasian Union project.
Therefore, I think that all this is nothing but a conversation, which
will further form new geopolitical relations. For instance, if Europe
demands signing the Association Agreement, why does it simultaneously
lay down hard-going conditions for Yerevan? Russia is also creating
difficult problems for Armenia in its way to Eurasian integration.
This is why the ACNIS director is quite skeptical about the perspective
of the given projects.
http://www.arminfo.am/index.cfm?objectid=CBD3B5C0-E304-11E2-84290EB7C0D21663
ArmInfo's interview with Manvel Sargsyan, Director of the Armenian
Center for National and International Studies (ACNIS)
by David Stepanyan
Tuesday, July 2, 14:47
In the light of the degrading political parties in Armenia, the civil
society seems to have assumed their role. This has brought certain
results in the fight against the outrage of the authorities. However,
public movements have been experiencing certain stagnation lately.
Many say that the authorities have again bribed public activists...
The political and psychological situation and discourses have changed
in Armenia over certain period of time. The past few years and the
year 2012, in particular, were unprecedented in terms of the civic
movements. This is a fact we cannot neglect. And this fact could not
but break the ordinary things and initiate fundamentally new discourses
and scenarios. Actually, all this has happened in Armenia and the
ongoing stagnation conveys nothing. Although the civic activeness did
not settle the issues set by civic activists, many issues were settled
then. The political aura that had been created for decades collapsed
due to public activeness, something that is of extreme importance for
us. Nearly all the citizens have realized that everything that had
happened before was senseless. The last presidential and municipal
elections showed that the old and already senseless political system
has finally collapsed. All of us became witnesses of how quickly the
large-scale protests after the presidential elections of February
calmed down. People once gain made sure that since 1996 nothing has
changed in the election system of Armenia. That is why they just left
home and ignored the Yerevan Mayor's election.
What was the role of the civic movements in that process?
Civic movements have cleared up the situation in the country. There
are ongoing processes in Armenia. Hundreds and thousands of people
go to streets and block traffic as a sign of protest, which is the
best display of civic activeness. People fight to save nature that
is damaged for construction of hydro-power plants that will serve
the interests of a group of the rich only.
The civic movements in Armenia made the public realize that they
must fight for their rights independently, because politicians will
never do that for them. This was, probably, the main result of those
movements...
Sure, there are examples of various forms of public protests. The
people have realized all that with the growing public movements. And
political accusations of those movements confirmed that. The civic
activists in the Taksim Square in Turkey hit the final nail in the
coffin of Armenia's political past. After all, the Mashots Park in
Yerevan could grow into a movement similar to that for Gezi Park, but
for the clannish suppression of the movement from all sides, and first
of all, by the efforts of the so-called oppositional parties. In this
light, to overcome the crisis in Turkey, Recep Erdogan just needed to
create a couple of pseudo-oppositional parties like it is practiced in
Armenia. Those parties would easily persuade the people that activists
in the Taksin Square are 'bad people' and they should not join them.
Erdogan's key mistake was to tell that to the people personally.
By the way, do you think that there are pseudo-public movements fed
by the authorities in Armenia?
This is impossible given the reasons of those movements. I don't think
that the authorities need that either. The logic of this process is
inherently against the authorities. They don't need, for instance, the
traffic blocked by the Armavir farmers. I think, when the people go to
streets and raise their problems to the government, such technology
cannot work either in Armenia on anywhere else. The authorities must
realize that a fight for a tree can spiral into a revolution. In
Armenia they do not realize this and Turks in the Taksin Square
demonstrated that. Today, there are quite promising trends here. With
help of the Turkish youth the Armenian party demagogy has collapsed.
In Baku they are well aware of that, given that Azerbaijan has not
responded to the processes in Turkey...
In Baku they do not respond to the processes in Turkey as they are well
aware what it may lead to. The Armenian politicians also understand
this, but they have already failed feeding the public with nonsense
for two years to save their party life and gain dividends. In the
meanwhile, Park Gezi is a bight example of what a fight for a park
may grow into. Therefore, we see certain ideological prostration in
Armenia now and a 100% confidence that the old political system is
useless. In Armenia people cannot understand why Turks and Brazilians
succeed but we don't. The new epoch will answer this question. Turks
have already begun thinking differently and they have already got rid
of stereotypes unlike Armenians. They don't ask why to fight for a
flower when they need to fight for a regime change. They have realized
that a proper fight even for a flower will lead to a regime change. In
Armenia the people does not know this so far, because we have been told
for years that a change of power is possible only through chanting
'Serzhik Leave!' They made us think that we do nothing if we have
no such poster in our hands. In the meanwhile, life has showed that
those who hold such posters do nothing really. What we have now in
Armenia is an active period of revision of everything we have talked
about. And this inspires with hope.
In response to the reproach of Yerevan's certain circles regarding the
weaponry deal with Azerbaijan, Moscow habitually says that shipments
of arms are just business. Nevertheless, the large-scale shipments of
offensive arms to Baku is not the best argument in favor of the OSCE
MG's efforts to maintain the fragile peace in the South Caucasus...
Large-scale shipments of offensive arms to our region cannot be
qualified as business only. Today everybody understands what the
given step of Russia means. I am deeply convinced that this step is
well-considered and Moscow has estimated the consequences, though
Russia is trying to disguise the significance of this step. Today
Russia is trying to strengthen its presence in the region in every
possible way, even by means of such unordinary steps. Meanwhile,
Russia has enough goals in the region, given NATO's strengthening in
Georgia. Certainly, Armenia should have been informed of the deal
beforehand, but history shows that the Armenian society is never
informed of the steps that are of such significance to it.
Do you think that the problem of opposing Armenia's European and
Eurasian integration projects is sophisticated?
Armenia's European and Eurasian integration projects are just topics,
not a goal to set up new geopolitical relations in the region. "My
opinion is based on the lack of specifics, unclearness of the sizes
of the EU Association Agreement project and the Eurasian Union project.
Therefore, I think that all this is nothing but a conversation, which
will further form new geopolitical relations. For instance, if Europe
demands signing the Association Agreement, why does it simultaneously
lay down hard-going conditions for Yerevan? Russia is also creating
difficult problems for Armenia in its way to Eurasian integration.
This is why the ACNIS director is quite skeptical about the perspective
of the given projects.
http://www.arminfo.am/index.cfm?objectid=CBD3B5C0-E304-11E2-84290EB7C0D21663